Here is a transcript of an interview between EEA’s Ken Wu and CBC’s Kathryn Marlow on All Points West that aired on June 6, 2021. They discuss how the B.C. government needs to embrace federal protection targets and funding to protect old-growth forests and provide First Nations with an economic alternative to old-growth logging revenues on their unceded lands.
Kathryn Marlow: As you’ve been hearing in the news, local First Nations have formally asked the province to defer old-growth logging in sections of South Vancouver Island, sections that are the focus of current protests. The Ditidaht, Pacheedaht, and Huu-ay-aht First Nations want the pause while they develop their own forestry plans for the contested sites. In a statement today, the premier said the government recognizes that the nations are exercising their constitutionally protected Indigenous interests over the protected area, and the province says it is willing to enter into discussions regarding their requests. In the meantime, a long-time advocate for old-growth preservation says he knows where the province could get the money to cover deferring the logging of old-growth. Ken Wu is the Executive Director of the Endangered Ecosystems Alliance based in BC and he joins us on the line now. Hi!
Ken Wu: Hi, how are you doing Kathryn?
Kathryn: I’m fine thanks, how are you?
Ken: Good, good.
Kathryn: You're talking about that pot of money that you say is sitting there waiting to be used am I right?
Ken: Yes, I mean it's not as simple as that, but there is essentially 2.3 billion dollars for the protection of terrestrial ecosystems that has been allocated in the last federal budget and BC's share of that would be roughly $200-300 million. Of course, in British Columbia old-growth forests are at the center of the protected areas push, so essentially John Horgan has been handed a golden opportunity, the keys to end a good chunk of the War in the Woods, if he decides to align himself with the key framework and the financing to to make this happen.
Kathryn: So what would that entail, how could the province take advantage of this money?
Ken: They could take advantage of it right now, but there’s an expectation that the provinces get on board with the national commitment to the international agenda to expand protected areas to 30 percent by 2030, and 25 percent by 2025, which is the Canadian interim target. British Columbia so far has protected 15 percent of the province’s land area, so it would have to double the protected area system in the next ten years, and at the center of that, of course, is the expectation that old-growth forests would need to be protected. So it’s a commitment to the targets, and also embracing the financing for largely Indigenous Protected and Conserved Areas that would be there to protect the ecosystems of British Columbia.
Kathryn: How far would 300 million dollars go to protecting the province's remaining old-growth?
Ken: It would be a good chunk but it wouldn’t be enough. That would probably constitute about 40 to 50 percent of what’s really needed to get the most at-risk, high-productivity, grandest old-growth forests. The BC government is going to be fine in terms of their interest to protect a lot of the low-productivity old-growth because they want to be able to say they’ve saved old-growth and name all the hectares that they’ve saved. But essentially their PR spin has always been about saving the small trees and logging the big trees, but claiming lots of old-growth areas have been saved and lots still remain, and not making those critically important distinctions. This federal money, along with the conservation movement pushing and First Nations who have an interest in monumental cedars and keeping a lot of the lowland old-growth saved, those champions are going to help direct the whole process. But the money’s key and this is a big chunk of it. It’s not the whole thing, but it’s good, almost half, maybe, of what’s needed.
Kathryn: Why do you think BC hasn’t already taken advantage of this money?
Ken: I think because - there was a previous 1.3 billion, right, over the past five years, and British Columbia has largely undermined and obstructed and vetoed that previous round of funding - missed opportunities! And I think it's because the BC NDP has not been a nature-orientated government. They’ve been the “same old, same old” as far as the destructive status quo. But now they’re under huge pressure, because there has been growing pressure over the years and there’s the expectation that they’re going to have to move on this. Now they may actually open the doors. It looks like Horgan has actually, verbally recognized it at least, about a week ago in his press conference, that there is federal support now to expand Indigenous Protected and Conserved Areas and old-growth.
Kathryn: One of the things that we’re hearing in the news today is that three First Nations would like the province to step away, to defer old-growth logging, while they come up with their own plans. Why not wait for them to decide what they want to happen with the trees and their land? Some of these nations are involved in logging to a certain extent, primarily of second-growth but sometimes of old-growth. Why not let them decide since it's their unceded territory?
Ken: It's fully about having First Nations decide, and whether anybody likes it or not, that is the reality. And that's fully what we support, we support First Nations Rights and Title, but we also believe that First Nations need the freedom of choice. We've worked with the Union of BC Indian Chiefs and other First Nations champions of protected areas to make it clear that the province’s financial, legal, and political clout is vastly superior to that of First Nations’ communities in terms of the financial power, which has essentially meant that for First Nations so far they have had to choose between, often, economic poverty and great unemployment levels, or old-growth logging opportunities that have been presented by the province: revenue sharing agreements, tenure, joint venture, employment agreements. And it's up to the province, who have facilitated the old-growth timber dependency in First Nations communities across British Columbia, to now provide a big chunk of that financing. Not just using Trudeau’s money, but Horgan himself has got to come up with financing for First Nations to develop clean energy, tourism, non-timber forest products, sustainable seafood, a whole variety of industries to supplant the old-growth timber dependency and keep those trees standing. So that’s the critical piece, and the federal government has stepped forward with a big chunk of the funding. Horgan… I was worried, but I think he’s probably moving there because he knows that’s part of the way out of the whole mess that he has created. But they're going to have to move forward themselves to embrace the targets, at the bare minimum the protected areas targets, and to provide financing themselves.
Kathryn: These protected areas, do you expect that they become parks, or is it just Crown land that is left untouched or land that is perhaps given back to First Nations?
Ken: There’s a whole variety of ways that can happen. It could be through Indigenous Protected and Conserved Areas that essentially have provincial legislation called “Provincial Conservancy” that was used in the Great Bear Rainforest and in the Squamish area. That legislation was drafted in recent times to be very explicit, to be non-prejudicial to First Nations’ Rights and Title. And then you can have First Nations settlement lands with protective designations as well. So there’s a variety of mechanisms. And also, a land acquisition fund to buy private lands from willing sellers can also be used to establish an Indigenous Protected and Conserved Area, ie. a provincial conservancy. But there’s a whole variety of ways that the lands can be protected, but it is pretty important that First Nations have the freedom of choice for the economic opportunities to pursue an equivalent sustainable path of employment and revenues that keep the trees standing. Without the financing it's a hard thing to just expect First Nations to walk away from a big chunk of their revenues and jobs. Old-growth logging is a big part of the First Nations’ economies because of these successive provincial governments setting that up.
Kathryn: In the past, environmental groups have also raised money to protect forests. Do you know of any organizations that are doing that now?
Ken: Yes, so it’s called “conservation financing”. The reason in the Great Bear Rainforest it was possible to protect 85 percent of the forest there, the same as is happening in Clayoquot Sound and in Haida Gwaii, is because First Nations conservation interests were supported by dollars that were provided by the environmental groups and by the provincial and federal governments that were pressured at the time to provide matching funding. So we’re not able to announce what we’re working on exactly, but we are working on a conservation financing option right now that will augment federal funding and hopefully provincial funding.
Kathryn: Alright Ken, we’ll have to talk to you about that when you’re ready to say more! Thanks for joining us today.
Ken: Thank you very much!
Kathryn: Ken Wu is the Executive Director of the Endangered Ecosystems Alliance based here in BC.